- is beyond the point of reasoning.
I have had a very educating experience of talking to some people on a Polish forum on-line. The topic of the discussion demanded a clear definition of a Christian, in order to evaluate what is going on with Christians and to what extent they undergo so called paganisation.
So I presented this simple question, and got very vague and blurry answers, practically all-inclusive and universal in nature. I then presented the biblical criteria for a Christian, and then the proverbial hell broke loose.
The problem of talking to most Polish Catholics is two-folded. On the one hand they have practically no knowledge of their own theology, and even less knowledge of the Protestant theology, not to mention the Reformed one. These are abstract notions for them. Any and every argument pointing them to their (and my) sinful nature and the consequences of sin produces a reaction of "hurt feelings", of calling people like me boastful and conceited, and a complete loss of reasonable thinking on their part.
On the other hand, Polish Catholics have an enormous reverence for one man, the former pope. If you dare say anything against papacy, however gently and biblically grounded, you are a blasphemer and an outcast. Of course, this personal cult is a direct result of doctrinal desert.
When I tried to elicit any kind of proof for my being wrong in their opinion, a biblical proof, of course, their response was that this is not a fair demand, since they do not know the Bible, hence are unable to carry on an argumentation on the basis of the Bible. Do you see the logical loop of this reasoning?
I am being accused of things I simply stated quoting the Scriptures, and when I demand a counterargument from the Scripture, they whine about their incompetence. So why do they accuse me if they do not know the subject? Because what the Bible has to say is NOT tickling their ears. And it is offensive to their conscience.
The very popular response is: "this is not how I want it to be." Man-made religion at its best :)
I am not surprised... But I am tired of this shallowness, ignorance and lack of hunger for Truth.
Another popular response is: "please, not just this Bible again, let us talk some reason." The Bible is not important at all! It is an obstacle for the humanistic and post-modern view on god and people.
Still another: "you are fanatical, because you dare to claim that the likes of you are right." You see, as long as you float between semi-truths and probabilities, you are game. But as soon as you are positioning yourself on the Rock, you are not credible anymore. Why? Because you no longer share their insecurity, and that scares them. Whatever you do or say - do not say that you know the Truth for sure.
Sound discussion is impossible when the opponent has no knowledge, but instead has much self-pride.
You must remember that picture of the late pope kissing the Quran. Now when I remind my opponents of the obvious problem with such attitude, their immediate response is: "he is showing respect and love to people who believe in the same God."
Need I say more?
But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
(2Co 11:3-4)
7 comments:
Hey Ann,
My family is form the USA, but with Polish/Slavic family history. I see the deification of Papa Frita (my name for Pope JP2- Portugues for "fried pope").
My father has his picture all over. Icons and images everywhere. No use for the Bible, just for the odd human arguments.
I understand, Ann. My sister in law is a devoted Catholic, her husband (dh's brother) goes along with it, by letting her raise their children in the religion, though he doesn't go along to church.
There's no reasoning with them, and it's frustrating, but there's always hope! God put us together, in this place with them for a reason.
Romanism is the perfect religion for the carnal man. Everything about it is carnal and idolatrous.
The reason it is difficult to speak the Truth to Romanists, is that without the Second Birth, the religious system is just too appealing to their flesh.
I have a grandmother who is living out her last days (this may very well be her last year). I've tried to share the Gospel with her in the past, and I know my parents have tried several times also. In the end though, the idols and pictures of pope JP2 just increase in her house. She doesn't understand, because she doesn't fear God. She doesn't fear God, because she is not born-again; and so long as this is fact, she will fill the void with idols and foolish doctrines.
The Lord have mercy on her soul.
Rand
"...She doesn't understand, because she doesn't fear God. She doesn't fear God, because she is not born-again;"
You have hit a bull's eye... That is so true. My whole family is Roman Catholic. Poisoned and dead trough this man made religion. They worship Mary and do not really believe in resurrection. Jesus is a cute wise man if not a legend for them. We as a family came to biblical faith five years ago. A little later we have been thrown into an unbelievable furnace of test and trials. We are still in there today. It is incredibly hard at times but without this we would never have seen LORD’S faithfulness and hesed – his loving kindness. Praise be to His Eternal Name. Praise is to the name of Jesus Christ the Lord!
maybe it would be fair for all of readers if you quoted all sentences and not only that which match to your theories.... maybe also this our sentences and questions which you forgot(???) to answer...
Dear anonymous
Since this is my blog, I prefer for my commenters to present themselves. This is a rule we have here, though not stated explicitly for the sake of convenience, however if you want to engage in any form of argumentation, present yourself/register on Blogger, or be prepared for having your comments deleted.
As to the topic - I gather you found my blog by using my nick on the forum in question. That is perfectly fine. I have nothing to hide, because I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This blog is set up to glorify Him and what He did for me.
As you may see from the comments prior to yours, these are not only my THEORIES, but the sad and troubling reality of what is going on in the Church of Rome. And this is not only my guessing - I lived it and know what I am talking about.
The discussion on the forum got ugly, full of straw men and dirt casting, and I decided, biblically, to withdraw myself from it. However, here I may state with the full strength: Romanism is not Christianity, although there are many deceived people in it who are Christians longing for truth and suffering from the poor and unbiblical theology of this organisation. This is precisely why we care.
Peace and Grace
Excellent Ann:
"However, here I may state with the full strength: Romanism is not Christianity, although there are many deceived people in it who are Christians longing for truth and suffering from the poor and unbiblical theology of this organisation. This is precisely why we care."
Well put!
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